Shelter in Place v The Homeless
In January 2018, 552,830 people were counted as homeless in the United States. Of those, 194,467 (35 percent) were unsheltered, and 358,363 (65 percent) were sheltered. The overall homeless population on a single night represents 0.2 percent of the U.S. population, or 17 people per 10,000 in the population.
——Wikipedia
Shelter in place means finding a safe location indoors and staying there until you are given an “all clear” or told to evacuate. You may be asked to shelter in place because of an active shooter; tornado; or chemical, radiological, or other hazard.
——–Wikipedia
The coronavirus can make criminals of the homeless…Let’s make being homeless a crime:
Violation of, or failure to comply with, an order to ‘Shelter in Place’ is a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both.
—–California, Shelter in Place Order
Art W. Stone
03/18/2020 @ 11:50 am
What on earth are you saying?
Bitey
03/19/2020 @ 12:24 pm
Robert, your manner is unnecessarily abrasive, besides making broad assumptions that can’t be true. I’m not sure what your purpose is because some of what you’re saying is reasonable, and some of it is plain nonsense. If you dial it back just a notch, you would have a higher quotient of reasonable testimony. I was testing your bad assumptions. I’ll give you an example of some.
First of all, your broad generalizations like, “liberals are all hypocrites” is positively ridiculous. It only takes one example to burst that generalization wide open. I don’t need to, do I? Furthermore, Conservatives could not survive the implication that NO conservatives are hypocrites. (Yes, that is your implication by claiming unanimity among liberals.). I’ll give one example of that since it is timely. Republicans (used interchangeably with conservatives) have just proposed and enacted a trillion dollar stimulus package. Notice, there was no requirement to make it pay for itself. It was not called a “pork-u-lus”, or any such thing, it deviates from free market ideology which conservatives insist upon under Democrat control, etc. That is the quintessence of hypocrisy since free market is described as a solution to problems, and not just a preference.
One more notion for free, just because it is tangentially related. Trump recently said that he “always knew that Covid-19 would be a pandemic.” Now, if you are a Trump supporter, and you believed him when he claimed that it was a Democrat “hoax”…then you’re dumb. And if you believe him now…then you’re dumb. And the fact that Trump is on record attempting this tactic means that he believes…his supporters are dumb.
Now, as for government employees not wanting to take risks, that’s absurd. I am a former cop. I went and dealt with unhealthy dregs of society on a daily basis. I was concerned for my safety, and so was every pother officer I worked with, and I never saw anyone hesitate or refuse to engage with that as an excuse. The one qualification, although not an exception, was a cop who never busted red lights on a chase. He always stopped, no matter the condition. He made that adjustment for his safety…but still engaged with any person when necessary. Your blanket statement about government employees doesn’t hold.
I’m not interested in shooting cannon shots back and forth about who is right, etc. Nothing gets settled here. But I will say this one time, if you’re going to step out so hard, you better be right. Your assertions have giant holes in them. They’re wrong as a result. You can’t take down the concept of liberalism, and certainly not millions of liberals, who all think independently, with false premises.
03/18/2020 @ 3:00 pm
Unfortunately, in many areas of the country being homeless is already considered a crime – vagrancy. Realistically, no one is going to do anything about this in this situation because bringing them to jail would endanger those who are incarcerated. I know that no government official cares about the inmates, but the staff would lose their minds. They would be put at risk, and everyone knows that government workers will never allow this to happen. This means that nothing will really occur with this kind of policy.
Bitey
03/18/2020 @ 4:46 pm
I think I get what you’re saying. Government workers are in the way of incarcerating the homeless.
Have you considered that there are for profit prisons on which the homeless could be incarcerated? I mean, if the government really had initiative, they might arrange a “final solution” for the homeless, no? Why should the rest of us suffer because of those mean old government workers?
03/19/2020 @ 7:00 am
Before we continue this conversation, let me make something clear. I work with men and women getting out of prison. For seven years I spent every Friday and Saturday night during the winter gathering with homeless people (many of whom were former prisoners who could not find a place to stay) to talk to them and keep them awake because if they fell asleep in some of those cold temperatures they would have been done for. I spent many hours at the library working with homeless people to create resumes and fill out job applications. I still work with the homeless where I live now, so let’s not start with an insinuation that I want these people locked up. Don’t assume before you know a damned thing about me.
I listen to people babble about we need to spend more money, how $20 billion could end the homeless crisis. That is flat out B.S. The problem is that there are many who are incapable of taking care of themselves because of mental illness, and no amount of money is going to fix that. You can say that we can “force” them to take medication, but I don’t believe in this country we should force anyone to do anything unless they are violating someone else’s rights. Many of these men and women are perfectly happy with their lives. They have a community. They have people who love them. They have their own culture. It may be weird to us, but it is not my place to say it is wrong.
Sadly, this virus is going to affect many of these men and women worse than other groups, because most will not seek medical attention and there are still many among them who will see a sick person as an opportunity.
The prison system is not the answer either. What I was explaining was that if people actually think that homeless people are going to get locked up because they refuse to “shelter in” they are kidding themselves. Police officers are not going to run around arresting these men and women. Jails are not going to house them. I am just saying that this concern is off the table because government paid employees are not going to put themselves at risk, and no one starts at a private prison. They all go to county lock up to begin with, government employee run lockups. None of those people are going to put their health at risk to enforce any law like this.
Ron Powell
03/18/2020 @ 6:11 pm
I’m being sarcastic when I say:
“Let’s make being homeless a crime.”
The California Shelter In Place Order actually reads:
Violation of, or failure to comply with, an order to ‘Shelter in Place’ is a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both.
If this isn’t the criminalization of homelessness, there’s no such animal…
Ron Powell
03/18/2020 @ 6:20 pm
Please see:
“Please read this Order carefully. Violation of or failure to comply with this Order is a misdemeanor punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both. (California Health and Safety Code § 120295, et seq.)”
https://www.mercurynews.com/read-shelter-in-place-order-from-six-bay-area-counties
Art W. Stone
03/18/2020 @ 8:16 pm
Thank you for the clarification.
You are the last person I would have thought to demean the dispossessed.
Ron Powell
03/19/2020 @ 10:59 am
Robert,
“…if people actually think that homeless people are going to get locked up because they refuse to “shelter in” they are kidding themselves…”
That may well be a matter of where you are located…