Best Case Scenario
Over on Quora I answer questions. One question I chose to answer tonight was
What is the reason for Israel to allow the Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza?
My normal response would be: None. I can give you lots of reasons it would be a terrible idea. But are there circumstances under which it could work? So I wrote the following:
Best case scenario, and I’m not stupid enough to think this is likely, but if it were going to work, this is how it would work:
If Hamas is truly defanged, the only candidate to govern both the West Bank and Gaza any time soon would be the PA/Fatah. They, of course, want all of Israel, though they’re not as vitriolic as Hamas is about it.
Let’s look at who wants a two-state solution: the American government, most of the West, and, probably most importantly, the Sunni Arab states. They originally backed the Palestinians, even the formation of the Palestinians as a discrete people, because they wanted to get rid of Israel. However, two things changed: they finally figured out that Israel is not a territorial threat and George W. Bush’s elimination of Saddam Hussein turned Iran into a regional power. Iran wants much more influence in the Arab world and, like their proxies at Hamas, whom many of the Sunni Arab governments hate (especially Egypt), they’d like to replace the Sunni Arab governments with caliphates. Israel and the Sunni governments have a common enemy in Iran, Israel is an extremely valuable ally, and Israel has turned into a great place in which to invest and from whom to get technology. However, the Palestinian monster that these governments originally created has now turned into a pain in the ass to them, very demanding and wanting to get rid of a nation that these governments now value. Some have signed the Abraham Accords. But because of their own propaganda to their people over the years, the Israelis are often hated by their general populations, so they have to be careful.
But what happens if the Palestinians get a state?
The Arab debt to the Palestinians is paid, at least as far as the Arabs are concerned, and in this case that’s what matters. Now the Arab governments can say to their own populations: “We got Israel to give the Palestinians a state. Israel finally behaved reasonably.” Nearly their entire populations have never known a world without Israel, so Israel’s existence is not the offensive anomaly it was in 1948.
The Arab Sunni governments may even kick in money to help rebuild Gaza, but there will be a quid pro quo, and that quid pro quo will be that it’s over. “We got you your damned state, we insisted on it, we looked out for you, and now we don’t want to hear a word about our normalizing relations with Israel. And we sure as Hell won’t accept being targets of terrorism for doing so. Israel is useful to us.” Keep in mind that the Saudis have already been openly critical of Palestinian intransigence – as in in the international press – when it comes to statehood over the last several years. Also keep in mind that a Saudi prince recently announced that if Israel gives the Palestinians a state, Saudi Arabia will normalize relations with Israel.
Most people aren’t aware of what Israelis went through during the early days of the Trump Presidency. Obama had made a complete mess of the Middle East, in part by threatening Syria if they used chemical weapons and then failing to do anything when they used chemical weapons, and I say that as a Democrat who voted for him twice. When Trump was elected, both sides of the Arab/Israeli conflict were optimistic. Arabs were approaching Israelis at international scientific conferences, saying “we look forward to finally normalizing relations with you now that Trump is President.” This shocked the Hell out of the Israelis, and the Iranians have become much more openly dangerous to the Sunni Arab governments since. But Trump didn’t pull it off. If Hamas is effectively finished, Biden might be able to pull it off with a whole lot of international help, particularly from the Saudis.
Now, this is an extremely optimistic scenario. It leaves out the severe danger to Israel of having an independent state full of people who want to take over Israel on their border. Of course, an allegedly oppressed occupied population is a far cry from an independent nation next door. Being attacked by an occupied people is very, very different from being attacked by a neighboring sovereign nation, particularly a nation that a lot of the world would view as ingrates. We’ve reached the point where people in power in the Arab world actively want better relations with Israel, and that’s a sea change. The most influential player in that community is Saudi Arabia, and they are who want improved relations with Israel.
This doesn’t mean that I believe the Israelis would embrace something so risky, nor does it mean that I believe that the Palestinians will stop their “from the river to the sea” bullshit. As I said: best case scenario. But at least there is one, and it’s not 100% implausible.
Alan Milner
01/25/2024 @ 2:07 pm
I have never believed in the two-state solution because it is inherently unstable and depends entirely on the governments in power in each of the two states. Moreover, the vast majority of the two million Israeli Arabs don’t want a two-state solution because it would imperil their Israeli citizenship, which they value highly. Israeli Arab women have equal rights, which makes Israel the only Middle Eastern state where that is true. Conversely, the younger generations among the “Palestinians” have been raised on the “from the river to the sea” rhetoric and will not accept anything less regardless of what their elders negotiate. I believe that Israel has the absolute right to defend itself and, as long as missiles and terrorists from Gaza continue to attack Israel, Israel must fight back. The global surge of antisemitism proves the point that the rest of the world loves us only when we are being killed en masse. They go nuts when we defend ourselves because, what, Jews are supposed to be different from the other nations of the earth. If Cuba had done to the United States what Hamas did to Israel, Cuba would be a smoking hole in the water right now. Proof: we knew the Japanese were trying to surrender after Hiroshima, but we bombed Nagasaki anyway.
The two-state solution will not work, The West Bank must be absorbed by Jordan and Gaza must be absorbed by Egypt. That is the only REAL solution, in my opinion….but I know that neither Jordan nor Egypt want to absorb the Palestinian problem, leaving it up to Israel to defend itself.
koshersalaami
01/25/2024 @ 2:28 pm
The only part I disagree with is that a Palestinian state would endanger the citizenship of Israeli Arabs. There would be no grounds to revoke their citizenship, nor do I think that revoking their citizenship would be popular among Israel’s Jews.
No, I don’t think a two state solution is a stable idea, but neither is anything else. The alternative is a permanently subjugated population. Now, if one of those neighboring countries wants to pitch in land for a Palestinian state, that’s up to them, but neither Jordan nor Egypt wants the people and they have very valid historical reasons for not wanting them – Egypt doesn’t want anyone else Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas) in their country and the Palestinians once tried to overthrow Jordan.
The Arabs are different from Jews. They don’t take people in. Palestinians are still in refugee camps in Lebanon and at this point some of them have to be second or third generation Lebanese. It’s been 75 years. The only people who have opened their doors recently to Palestinians have been the Chechens.
So the question will remain: What does Israel do with this population? If a state shuts the world up, it might be a good idea. In addition, there’s a huge difference, as I’ve said, between attacking an allegedly subjugated people and returning an attack from a sovereign state. You mentioned Cuba, but what would happen if an attack came from some faction in Puerto Rico? That’s not analogous, but it’s closer.
I’m not advocating a Palestinian state, but Israel might be better off with one than without one. If they can keep that population at bay, that could end most of Israel’s pariah status in the Middle East, which is huge. Israel integrated with some of the Gulf States and the Saudis, including military cooperation, is a different world.
Alan Milner
01/25/2024 @ 3:11 pm
“Israel integrated with some of the Gulf States and the Saudis, including military cooperation, is a different world.”
That would be a thing to see.
koshersalaami
01/26/2024 @ 12:19 am
It’s a thing the Saudis actually want. That’s a major reason Hamas attacked Israel. Saudi officials have openly criticized the Palestinians for recalcitrance about peace with Israel for years. They’re already cooperating under the table. The Saudis are investing in Israeli companies using third parties, which they’d rather not have to do. A Saudi prince said a few days ago that if the Palestinians get a state, Saudi Arabia will normalize relations with Israel. How much clearer can they get?
The Israelis and Saudis have a lot to offer each other. They’re not at all interested in each other’s territory. Israel isn’t interested in contesting the Saudi’s role in the Arab world. They share an existential threat from a common enemy and more military integration would be really helpful. The Saudis already get intelligence assistance from Israel, which they value. They’d love the technical help. The Saudis have a whole lot of money and a whole lot of oil. Both countries are informal American allies. Both countries hate Hamas and anyone else, including the Iranian regime, who want to replace Sunni Arab governments with caliphates.
This isn’t a question like the Israelis and Palestinians where it’s obvious there would be mutual benefits to a peaceful independent relationship but at least one side doesn’t see it or want to see it. In the Israeli/Saudi case, both sides see it. Remember, the Abraham Accords have already happened. Egypt and Jordan have treaties with Israel. Jordan and Saudi Arabia do get along, unlike either with Syria, and Egypt gets along with both.
This is extremely logical. A Saudi/Israeli/Egyptian/Jordanian bloc changes the MIddle East completely for the better. Everybody involved is safer. Everybody involved is more prosperous. The US is thrilled. The obstacle is the lack of a Palestinian state. This isn’t theoretical, it’s obvious, and the Saudis have baldly stated it. Resentment toward Israel on the Egyptian street is based on the lack of a Palestinian state. All these countries are past the point of wanting Israel to disappear. The Jordanians don’t love the Palestinians. The Egyptians don’t love the Palestinians. If the Palestinians have a state, the Arab governments have way less to answer for to their own people when it comes to Israel and Palestine. It’s not just the governments who would see the Arab – and Israeli – debt as paid; you’d see that reaction a lot on the street, which covers the asses of the governments.
With the Palestinians, it’s wishful thinking. With the Saudis, it emphatically is not.
JP Hart
01/25/2024 @ 11:24 pm
Death is death life is life when it ends or begins is not a STEM toss so tattered neither divine AP nor wall whatever dopamine inspired scale or point >X https://www.unicef.org/world-childrens-day <——-
JP Hart
01/26/2024 @ 12:23 am
[sic] …dopamine inspired scale or point>X<clicks cyclically suspended by connived control effusive mind reflex as resource replenishes pleased as reckless parched GREED indelible as FEAR hence look around: an Artificially Infinite Horizon of Intellect AIHI [sic] albeit:
INFINITE TRUTH
JP Hart
01/26/2024 @ 12:25 am
[sic] … clicks cyclically suspended by connived control effusive mind reflex as resource replenishes pleased as reckless parched GREED indelible as FEAR hence look around: an Artificially Infinite Horizon of Intellect AIHI [sic] albeit:
INFINITE TRUTH
koshersalaami
01/26/2024 @ 6:39 pm
What’s infinite truth got to do with this? The whole issue is loaded with infinite falsehoods.
JP Hart
01/26/2024 @ 7:32 pm
Détente is the relaxation of strained relations, especially political ones, through verbal communication. The diplomacy term originates from around 1912, when France and Germany tried unsuccessfully to reduce tensions. Wikipedia
JP HART
(worried @ HOSTAGES {…} anguished by the passing of the GREAT HERB KOHL {LO;} Godspeed Senator!)
koshersalaami
01/26/2024 @ 8:51 pm
At least people on both sides in 1912 were interested in reducing tensions.