One sentence post: what defines conservatives
Conservatives are now defined primarily by what they don’t want to know.
Conservatives are now defined primarily by what they don’t want to know.
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Bitey
08/20/2021 @ 6:21 am
Civilization denial.
jpHart
08/20/2021 @ 1:02 pm
Creative tranquility.
jpHart
08/26/2021 @ 1:52 am
amygdala*
Quoted from Psychology Today, well referenced by Ron Powell:
*The Pathology of Trumpism — 10/22/2020
Yep, just about a year ago {…}
Ron Powell
08/20/2021 @ 8:54 pm
People who are defined primarily by what they don’t want to know never have been, and never will be, ‘conservatives’.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
– Martin Luther King Jr.
koshersalaami
08/21/2021 @ 8:58 am
At this point I have to disagree.
There is enormous evidence as to the continuing consequences and pervasiveness of current racism. They don’t want to know that.
There is enormous evidence as to the origins and consequences of climate change. They don’t want to know that.
There is enormous evidence that the benefits of COVID vaccines outweigh the risks. Vaccines have been nearly 100% successful at preventing severe cases of COVID leading to hospitalization, permanent lung damage, loss of sense of smell, and in many cases death, while what side effects they can find are way more minor and way more rare. They don’t want to know that.
The list is longer but these are the highlights and in each case their not wanting to know is gravely undermining the country.
Ron Powell
08/21/2021 @ 10:04 am
Who are the “they” you refer to and speak of?
My 75th birthday was a few days ago so I’ll only go back as far as 1946.
None of the ‘they’ you make reference to are ‘conservatives’ in the manner of Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Ford, the Bushes 1 and 2 or even Goldwater….
None of the. ‘conservatives’ I’ve listed were vocally and violently anti-democratic as the ‘they’ you reference are.
As I understand American political conservatism, a primary tenet is a staunch belief in, adherence to, and defense of American democracy and the American democratic political system.
None of the ‘they’ you speak of can be accused of being defenders of classical democratic principles, American democracy, and the American democratic political system.
Thus, in my view, they are not ‘conservatives’ at all.
To refer to the as ‘conservatives ‘ s giving them more credit than they deserve….
koshersalaami
08/21/2021 @ 10:29 am
It’s what’s left of the conservative movement has turned into. I would never in a million years have said stuff like this even ten years ago. What horrifies me most about conservatives now is how much they’ve deserted the memory of the people you list.
I don’t believe a lot of what’s happened with Congress, particularly around Trump, impeachment, and Jan. 6, if John McCain were still alive and serving in Congress
Bitey
08/21/2021 @ 11:54 am
https://college.cengage.com/history/west/perry/western_civilization/9e/chapters/chapter22.html
“Conservatism: The Value of Tradition
Hostility to the French Revolution
Conservatives thought revolutionaries were reckless and wicked
Saw the Revolution as a natural outgrowth of Enlightenment arrogance and abstraction
Conservatives thought people were wicked by nature, not good
Argued for value of traditional systems: monarchy, aristocracy, and the church
Institutions that offered proper moral values, order, and prevention of mob rule
Conservatives hated attempts to transform society on a theoretical model
God and history were the only legitimate sources of political authority
States should not be made but were an expression of the nation’s experience
Conservatives viewed society not as a machine, but as a complex, delicate, living organism; tamper with vital organs and it dies“
The above is lifted from the link at the top. It briefly states why I have always thought of most “conservatives” in American politics to be misplaced. They live lives which rest on ideas from the enlightenment, and and share a perspective with the French revolutionaries much more closely than the European aristocracy. They conflate wealth with virtue. Many see him/herself as being descended from royalty, when there is a nearly zero percent chance of that.
The American version started with Jefferson’s paean to liberation ideology in the Declaration of Independence, and the re-establishment of the old order with the Constitution. The “Y’all Qaeda”, as some refer to the Southern Republicans who want to revolt against the current government, refer back to America’s revolution, but would not even have been qualified to vote in that America. We have a massively misinformed populace, which operates on a completely corrupt definition of conservatism.
koshersalaami
08/23/2021 @ 12:37 pm
We’re about to see how far denial goes. The FDA just approved the Pfizer vaccine. Now all those people who don’t want to be vaccinated because the vaccines are “experimental” have been answered. Let’s see what happens.
Ron Powell
08/23/2021 @ 5:34 pm
“Let’s see what happens.”
What happens is blame black people for the COVID spikes and surges.
Listen as Texas Lt Governor initiates and doubles down on the next big COVID lie:
Since facts don’t matter to these. ‘conservative’ people, the idea that unvaccinated black people are the cause of the increase in COVID cases and deaths fits neatly into the hole created by the FDA approval of the vaccines
Black people as scapegoat is always a big winner with racist bigots….
koshersalaami
08/23/2021 @ 7:53 pm
Great.
That is historically the sort of thing said about Jews. I’m not surprised to see racism, but I am surprised by the form it’s taking.
Ron Powell
08/23/2021 @ 9:13 pm
“I’m not surprised to see racism, but I am surprised by the form it’s taking.”
Why are you surprised about the form it’s taking.
There’s nothing new, unique, or special about the scapegoating of black people re society’s ills….
koshersalaami
08/24/2021 @ 11:31 am
Scapegoating for the spread of disease is an old Jewish thing. It dates back to medieval epidemics. Because Jews followed more hygienic practices they died less so they were accused of poisoning wells. This is just a more traditionally antisemitic than racist trope.
Ron Powell
08/24/2021 @ 11:49 am
I don’t believe that the Lt Governor of Texas knows or cares what the history or traditional use of the trope is…
He’s a racist and has made a racist assertion with the intention of stirring racial fears, resentment and animosity among white folks in Texas and elsewhere…
Bitey
08/24/2021 @ 12:43 pm
One aspect of that which I find fascinating is the automatic negative assumption or suspicion that comes from the observed fact. More hygienic practices, greater survival, and then suspicion of poisoning. It is actually illogical. One might more easily have assumed sophistication re: problem solving and have sought the knowledge. It supports the theory that it was never a genuine motivation, but merely spin, and coercion. It reminds me of how many who preach the gospel of free markets, and commerce, etc, often attempt to condemn one’s motivations if there is a potential for profit behind it. Like when some express concern about climate change, others respond by saying it is a money making scam, rather than saying, how can I support your plan and make money. It always strikes me as odd.
koshersalaami
08/24/2021 @ 2:54 pm
It is odd.
Where it comes from is a sixties leftist anti-wealth holdover, where profit was treated as a dirty word synonymous with greed, which it isn’t. Unfortunately, American liberals have never exactly gotten rid of this tendency. The arguments about climate change and environmentalism in general should be more based on money but they aren’t, at least not in politics. Ignoring climate change is the height of fiscal irresponsibility, but you don’t hear that from Democrats. Oddly enough, big business has figured this out and is far more accepting of climate change than the Republican Party is. When Trump pulled out of the Paris Accords, opposition to doing so was expressed in public by
GM
GE
Exxon-Mobil
Chevron
Goldman-Sachs
Only the coal industry supported it.
Ron Powell
08/24/2021 @ 5:14 pm
On the matter of Republican Party and Conservatism:
Take a quick peek on this from the Insider:
“Mark Sanford said GOP leaders went along with Trump ‘hijacking’ the party because it ‘had come to stand for surprisingly little.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-sanford-trump-hijacking-republican-party-leaders-principles-2021-8
koshersalaami
08/26/2021 @ 10:10 am
That’s completely true.