On the Uses of Symbols in Politics
There was a time, not so very long ago, when the sight of the stars and stripes filled me with pride….
Um, that’s bullshit. The American flag hasn’t inspired me to pride since Dwight David Eisenhower inserted the two words, “under God” into the pledge of allegiance in 1954. I was only SIX but that change still infuriated me, as it has ever since, because I knew that the god to which the pledge referred wasn’t the same god I didn’t worship.
Since 1954, I have NEVER recited the pledge of allegiance, sometimes avoiding meetings where I knew the pledge would be recited.
When you make a pledge of allegiance to anything, you only need to make it once because a pledge, once pledged, remains in force for the rest of your life. Forcing children to repeat the pledge on a daily basis is brainwashing, pure and simple, but it only works on people who believe in a certain kind of God.
In recent years, beginning in 2016, my attitude toward the flag has changed from mild annoyance to violent hatred. That’s when Trump started wrapping himself in the flag (both metaphorically and physically) to indicate his tight bond with America.
I don’t hate America. I love America fervently. I hate most symbolic representations that divide societies against themselves and citizens against each other.
The American flag has been adopted as a symbol by the Christian Right which, in my opinion, is nothing other than Nazism Reborn. There are now multiple versions of the Stars and Stripes, each of which has been adopted and promoted by a different group of haters.
There’s the black and blue version, which is often seen flying from the tail beds of over-sized pickup trucks, along with a Trump Banner from 2016, 2020, or 2024. The sight of those two banners together has polluted the purity of the Stars and Stripes forever for me.
Looking back through history, there’s a long list of symbols that have been used in war and politics that have lost their allure over the years for some people, while others consider them incentives to riot or to beat other people up.
The War Banners of the Israelites
You might think that the war banners of the ancient Israelites would have been in embossed with emblems such as the Menorah or the Mogan Dovid (Star of David), but those symbols only intersected with the Israelites much later on in their saga. Instead, each of the 12 tribes had its own banners. (For a detailed explanation follow this link although I can’t vouch for the authenticity of the material.)
The Christian War Banner
It shouldn’t come as a surprise that Christians have used the Cross as their war banner for almost 1600 years, with different denominations using different motifs that incorporate the cross into the design.
Islamic Symbolism
You might guess that the armies of Islam used the crescent moon and star as their war banner and, in more recent centuries, they have done that, but Mohammad’s own armies following a plain black banner without ornamentation, or so we are told.
Greek Shields
Spartan wives used to send their husbands off to war, telling them to return with their shields…or on them. Each of the ancient Greek city-states had their own unique emblems worked into the shields, and there are several versions for some of the cities.
The Roman Eagle
The Roman Eagle was famous. Wherever the eagle went, civilization – the Roman version of civilization – followed. Each legion carried its golden eagle at the head of their column, and woe betide the general who did not come back with his eagle intact.
The Roman Fasces
The Roman Eagle was a purely military symbol. The Roman Fasces was both military symbol and a symbol of civilian authority dating back to the Roman Republic. The Fasces (which appears on the obverse of the US Mercury dime) was a bundle of sticks tied together with the Roman battle axe, which was the symbol of magisterial authority…and the symbol that Benito Mussolini adopted for his Fascist party, taking the name of the symbol as the basis for the party’s name.
The Nazi Swastika
Adolf Hitler was big on symbols. He liked them because, as Edward Bernays pointed out, symbols convey large amounts of information very efficiency once the symbol becomes widely recognized. He adopted the swastika because there are examples of the 15,000 year old symbol in 6th century German pottery. There are associations with the swastika in virtually every culture that has ever existed. (In fact, 1st century Jews were known to use the symbol in their ceramic tile work.) There was persistent myth in the Third Reich that the ancient Aryan people (who actually might never have existed) had migrated from Germany to Greece, which was why amateur German archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann found them when he thought discovered the ancient city of Troy in 1871. (The city he discovered wasn’t actually Troy of Achilles, Ulysses and Homer; he was in the right place but on the wrong level.)
The Rising Sun of Japan
The Japanese name for Japan is Nippon (or Nihon), which literally mean “source of the sun” and their naval battle flag – the red disc with sixteen red rays emanating from the disc became one of the most hated symbols to come out of World War II, The modern country’s national flag is a simple red disc on a white background, to distinguish it from the various versions of the Japanese battle flag (the Japanese Army’s battle flag only has eight rays) that raise extreme resentment in the countries that Japan overran during the Second World War. Today, the battle flag is sometimes associated with right-wing groups in Japan.
The Allies Had No Unifying Symbol
During World War II, there was no symbol for Allied soldiers operating together. Each country adopted its own identification badges. American troops adopted arm patches based on the American flag, beginning with the North African campaign. The decision to adopt the battle flag patch was apparently made by individual commanders. The only system wide symbol was the US badge with the letters U and S in a circular badge worn on one shoulder. The unit badge was usually worn on the other shoulder. By the Korean War, the flag shoulder patch was standardized on battle and dress uniforms.
The Republican Elephant and the Democratic Donkey
Republicans and Democrats have two time-honored emblematic symbols, both of which are becoming less frequently used.
The Democratic Donkey dates back to the election of 1828 that pitted incumbent John Quincy Adams against Andrew Jackson, the standard bearer for the new Democratic party. Adams repeatedly referred to Jackson as a “Jackass,” punning against his opponent’s last name. Jackson turned the slur around, embracing it and referring to himself and his followers as having the strength of mules, and Democrats have been associated with donkeys ever since.
Cartoonist Thomas Nash revived the use of the donkey emblem attacking President Grant announced intention to run for a third term…but he used an elephant to represent Grant as a fumbling, bumbling and clearly exhausted candidate. He depicted the Democrats as a donkey wearing a lion’s skin seemingly poised to kick Grant’s elephant off the cliff he was on. (Nash, a staunch Republican himself, apparently didn’t believe that anyone should have more than two turns…or, perhaps, the staunch opponent to Reconstruction might have believed that the only way to get rid of Reconstruction would be to get rid of Grant, which might have been true. Grant didn’t run again, and Reconstruction came to an end.)
Today’s Republicans explain that their mascot represents “intelligence, dignity and strength.” Democrats aver that their mascot represents “work, diligence, and humbleness,” although neither characterization lines up well with the modern versions of those parties which might better be described as “lawless outlaws” or “arrogant intellectuals.” (You can decide which description applies to which party, because you really can’t go wrong either way.)
Seriously, how serious can you get about a political party whose time honored symbol is a donkey or, in other words, a horse’s ass.
Let’s face it. The Republicans have the strong (well as strong as an elephant, as the saying goes), wise old elephant who never forgets. The Democrats have a donkey or a mule, which doesn’t inspire patriotism, courage, self-assurance or any other positive attribute.
Let’s be fair to the donkey. Donkeys are amazing animals. Smart, affectionate, strong, durable, surefooted and nimble…but they don’t symbolize strength or courage. (Ever heard of Hannibal’s war elephants? Ever heard of a war donkey?)
THE MAGA HAT
Candidates have been selling straw hats with their names on them for more than 150 years, but the MAGA hat is something new.
The acronym for “Make America Great Again” was always annoying to me because America is exactly as great as it ever was, greatness being a combination of the natural resources we enjoy, the unique geography of the country, the inventions we invented, the industries we created, the discoveries we have found, the wars we have waged, the diseases we have conquered, and the culture we have built together.
Well, America was great until Donald Trump got his hands on us, because, in order for his slogan to make any sense, he had to convince America that we aren’t as great as we used to be. In other words, he had to tear us down in order for his campaign slogan to make any sense, which means he had to lie a lot, something he continues to do on an hourly basis around the clock, day after day. It has become a standard element in his rhetoric that America ain’t what it used to be, ignoring the fact that America today is better than yesterday’s America but isn’t as good as tomorrow’s America will be, unless Trump wins re-election.
The MAGA caps perform two very important functions for Trump.
Wearing the MAGA caps identifies Trump followers to each other at a single glance, like a red badge of courage, without the actual blood. This identification builds up the Trumpers’ self-confidence because there is safety in numbers. Coincidentally, the red caps make it difficult to get an accurate headcount of the attendance at Trump’s rallies because they create a group identity that belies the range of opinions represented by the attendees.
At the same time, those MAGA caps – along with the flags, banners, and bumper stickers – intimidate people who are opposed to Trump, in the same way that openly carrying firearms intimidates other citizens who are not armed. People of color, immigrants, sexually diverse people, people who face physical and mental challenges are all intimidated by those fucking MAGA caps UNLESS the person wearing the cap matches one or more of their own “deviant” characteristics, which is not likely to happen all that often.
The widespread, grassroots efforts at voter intimidation can be seen quite clearly when you start counting bumper stickers and yard signs for Biden, because there are virtually none of either out there….but there are plenty of Trump banners and Trump stickers. Since it is clear that at least 70 million people intend to vote for Biden, it is also clear that many of them feel intimidated by the Maga Maggots.
Mailers, Bumper Stickers and Yard Signs
We have a municipal election coming up next week, and the yard signs are all over the place….for the mayoral and city council candidates, but not for Biden or Trump. (The presidential lineups have already been lined up.) As a matter of fact, candidates for local office often do not identify themselves as Republicans or Democrats.
In fact, on the basis of my own informal survey, bumper stickers and yard signs have lost their appeal. No one wants to drive around with a Biden-Harris bumper sticker for fear that something might happen to their car, either in the supermarket parking lot or while they are actually in it…but I’m not seeing very many Trump stickers either.
Biden voters are afraid of being targeted by Trump voters, but Trump voters aren’t afraid of those weak-kneed Biden voters (although we are seeing fewer Trump stickers recently.)
Democrats are afraid. They are afraid of Republicans and they are specifically fearful of MAGA Republicans…and those fears are not unfounded.
If you pat down a MAGA partisan, you’re liable to find a couple of guns, some extra magazines, brass knuckles, switchblade knives. Now, in most cases, the MAGA person who confronts you might not be armed, but you have no way of knowing that.
If you pat down a Democrat (present company excepted), all you’re going to find is some lint in their pockets because not only do Democrats not carry firearms, they also discourage the carriage of firearms. It’s one of the biggest issues that Democrats are going to have to come to terms with this year, along with abortion, immigration, and woke-ism.
WHAT TO DO ABOUT EMBLEM POLITICS
“EMBLEM” politics is a bad thing, because it reduces the political discourse to the level of epithets and name calling. If everyone would simply stop using them (which obviously isn’t going to happen) we might be more able to see each other as people, rather than enemies.
03/22/2024 @ 5:42 pm
Male power symbols. Not even one that signifies women?
Here, let me help you, buddy.
She’s between 33,000 and 25, 000 years old. Is there anything more powerful than the ability to give birth?
03/22/2024 @ 11:55 pm
First of all, they are not all male power symbols. The star of david is purportedly the superimposition of male and female pubic areas. The original design had a black dot in the center, supposedly indicating the point of congrex.
An 30,000 year-old ancient fertility symbol such as the Woman of Willendorf comes from a culture that we know nothing about….but it is pretty obvious that it wasn’t carried into war as a rally point for armies.
The fact that there are no female symbols referred to in this article reflects the fact that while there have been female war leaders – in Britainia, France, and in Africa, I am not aware of any battle emblems identified with those historical figures.
03/23/2024 @ 6:28 am
Your list of symbols focuses on their political power. If you meant battle symbols, then maybe say that. I’m fine with you leaving war to the men. But political power? During Women’s History Month? The power of human reproduction doesn’t count? Dude.
Great place to explore power symbols is currency–what nations choose to feature about themselves on their money. Before the euro, France depicted artists. Artists. UK their queen. Some countries feature birds and fruits. The US features portraits of founding fathers (multiple enslavers), an eagle holding arrows in one talon an olive branch in the other, an all seeing eyeball pyramid, monuments, and aggressive upper case font. One of my class projects is to design a certificate of exchange for the college community that celebrates iconography that we value. We discuss symbols of creative power and supportive fonts (lots of cursive script), then students design certificates of great beauty, humor, and thought. They print their finished bills, then we go down to the cafeteria to try to purchase coffee with them. Not surprisingly, they are often accepted. 😂 ‘Woke’ money!
Ennyhoo, my suggestion was to expand your definition of power. If Venus wasn’t powerful enough, how about this woman?
03/23/2024 @ 6:45 pm
I cannot think of a single image of a woman that has ever been used as battle flag or a party identifier. I sure that there were some during the suffragette movement, but I wasn’t around that far back, and since then they have not received any attention.
You may want to inject your agenda into everything, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you.
I thought Harriet Tubman was a great idea for the $20 because Andrew Jackson really was a jackass, as John Quincy Adams so aptly called him, and I don’t think he belongs among the likes of Washington, Lincoln, Hamilton, Grant or Franklin. Tubman does.You might note that I did not include Jefferson, who is on the $2 bill because, well, he was an asshole.
03/25/2024 @ 12:34 pm
Alan, read your own post headline: “On the Uses of Symbols in Politics”. If you meant battles, then consider a different title. You’re right that women don’t commonly start or support war, and I said that in my first comment. However, political symbols involving women are plentiful. Men often don’t see that they don’t see women.
A recent example. You asked Bitey about the books that most influenced him. He provided a list of ten. None were written by women. You gushed over the list.
Book suggestion for both of you: anything by Toni Morrison. My personal favorites are “Song of Solomon” and “The Bluest Eye”. When a man mentions these were important books to him, I know I’ve met a man who can see women.
My ‘agenda’? As in, ‘feminism’? You prove my point.
03/26/2024 @ 1:02 pm
You know, Suzanne, one of the absolute least things I like about the internet age is making and discussion of lists. I loathe them. They seem to me to be conversation generated in lieu of real thought or conversation. I was asked numerous times about making some list of books, and I just stayed out of it. When asked again, rather than ignoring it, I just made one. I was being polite. Just now I see that my list is not sufficiently feminist. Somehow, if I draw an accurate inference, I don’t “see” women.
Your criticism doesn’t allow much space between Attila the Hun, or Archie Bunker, and me. I freely admit that I had a very traditional mid-century male upbringing. I don’t apologize for that. And trying to make a character judgement of me based upon some hastily assembled list, a task that I was not fully invested in, is unfair.
Male and female are not philosophical opposites like some sort of acidity/alkaline analysis. Your diagnosis relies on a determinism which is less open than my entire lifetime of experience with the philosophical spectrum. Save the whales does not mean screw the dolphins by necessity. That is an unfair conclusion. You’re using that type of determinism against me. I abhor that type of thinking, and I reject this absurd diagnosis.
No discussion of this reading list ever arose until just now. You didn’t question a single item, or the list altogether. You just rendered judgment. I’m stunned, and I wish I had not responded to it. It was supposed to be friendly conversation.
03/27/2024 @ 10:26 am
Bitey, I like you. You’re a good guy. You get it, and don’t bristle when male blind spots are mirrored. I too dislike listsicles, one reason why I didn’t comment on yours. Also, am not here on a daily basis, so didn’t see that post until it had been up for awhile.
Likewise, am not a fan of Ms. Liberty, but neither am I a fan of the other symbols Alan named. I introduced Ms. Liberty only in consideration of gender balance, because she is so recognized.
Perhaps as a Black man, you understand a bit of what I’m going to say re: response. Calling out every single instance would be exhausting and a waste of time. Also, when one does take the time, men often see it as an attempt to diminish them somehow, rather than point out something they are missing. Most progressive liberal male humans would prefer to be pro-women and inclusive, and I am glad for that. Protecting the ego won’t accomplish that however.
03/26/2024 @ 1:49 pm
I wish this were a symbol of power. It isn’t. It is a powerful symbol, but it is a symbol of justice. This symbol stands in defiance of power. It is philosophically opposed to power. It is a mistake to confuse this with power. America whitewashes its past, pardon the expression, with implying that it puts justice first. It doesn’t, and it never has. This particular symbol represents our openness to immigrants. When was the last time that happened? We are much more likely to lock them up, lock them out, or bomb them than we are to welcome them. The Statue of Liberty is a sad relic. Would I like it to represent a guiding principle in America today? Absolutely. Is it? No.
03/26/2024 @ 2:02 pm
My article was aimed at exploring the effect of Trump’s use of symbolism, which is something he got from his studies of how Hitler did it. Hitler was very big on symbols. ALL of the war banners I described in the article were also used in politics. The Israelites had tribal conflicts and those conflicts were represented in the symbolism of their shield art….but I didn’t mention that. All of the other war banners were also used as political symbols….and the elephant and donkey were exclusively political symbols. Trump’s MAGA hat has effectively replaced the Republican elephant.
I have become very intolerant of identity politics. I fear that identity politics could put Trump back in the White House. I have also grown tired of ultra-feminism, and especially tired of the phrase, “mansplaining” which does nothing to advance conversations, but often chokes off communications. I told my wife about this discussion, and she laughed because she considers me the most non-chauvinist male she’s ever met. I don’t agree with her. I think that title belongs to my son.
By the way, I have absolutely no recollection of ever asking you for a list of books. What was that all about?
03/26/2024 @ 2:39 pm
I agree. I have no recollection of you asking about a list of books either. JP Hart asked me. I was just answering Suzanne’s judgment of me as chauvinist.
I had the same thought re: chauvinism and my wife’s view, but I figured it would be a bit unfair for me to offer my wife as my defense. However, I can say that I frequently mention my wife’s view on something, what I have learned from her, that she is brilliant, etc. Suzanne has even acknowledged that habit previously. All was lost once she saw a list of ten books, though. Back in the bin with the genetically male.
Recently, James Carville said something like, “there are too many preachy females in the Democratic Party…” It made the news last night, and Amy and I discussed it. I said to her, “wow, that was a stupid thing to say, and he is not a stupid man, so what is he up to?” I don’t like the idea, and I don’t like his word choice. (I dislike when people refer to humans as females or males rather than women and men). And I said, is he trying to carve out a misogyny lite position to catch the fallout from the GOP? I confess that I don’t know, but I would rather stick with the respectful position and die on that hill rather than try to absorb/invite Republicans for a victory…in that way. I also concede that Carville has forgotten more about political strategy than I’ll ever know…so I remain confused.
All of that is to say that I am bordering on rejection of a style of feminism that rejects me because I am male. That’s just bigoted bullshit. My “Y” chromosome does not determine my will or my political stance. And, if it absolutely did…condemning me because of it would be unjust.
And “identity politics”: practically all politics is identity politics, and it always has been. What people reject about “identity politics” is trying to include more identities in it. Conceptually, many have been excluded from politics. Counting on mere humans to blindly apply justice is naive. It has to be faced, acknowledged, and indulged. There is no way around it…short of war.
03/27/2024 @ 10:40 am
Bitey, left a longer response somewhere above (never know how to reply to specific comments on this platform)
Two notes:
Never said the word ‘chauvinism’. You did.
Never said feminism means rejecting everything male, and will happily write you a check for two hundred dollars if you can find where I did. Because so so so untrue.
Maybe revisit what I said somewhere in this comment morass regarding strong defensive reaction. I know that whenever I have that, it’s because I might take a look at something.
One time I commented to someone arguing with Ron that if a Black person is willing to share their experience with me, it’s an opportunity for me to listen. Much later I learned that Ron had saved that comment because he said it was so rarely expressed. I miss that guy.
03/27/2024 @ 11:17 am
One last word for Bitey…I have a bunch of stuff to get done today and tomorrow,
(and apologies for commenting rather than posting, my account was deleted at some point, am beginning to understand by who and perhaps why)
Why not put a book with a woman author on that listcicle and make it eleven?
Reading the news has been such a downer, I started reading again, goal of two books a month, last year read 31, about equally divided between male and female authors. The year before that, I read only Black authors. Side note: in a comment exchange with Ron, I was kinda stunned that he hadn’t read any of the younger Black writers, e.g. Colson Whitehead, Ibram X Kendi, Ta-Nehisi Coates, or even old Black writers like James McBride (side side note: all men!). He said James Baldwin was better, even though he hadn’t read the newer voices. I offered to read any book of his choosing if he’d read a book of mine, no crappity-crap allowed. He demurred.
Want to do it? Name a book and I’ll read it. But you have to read one I’d name 🙂 This is a kindly offer btw, not a shot across a boy bow.
03/27/2024 @ 3:11 pm
Outside of the fact that your name is Suzanne, I have absolutely no idea who you are….and I have only deleted two accounts since Bindle started….and I know you were neither of them.
I have occasionally had to remove groups of fake users but the last time I did that was more than three years ago.
If you want an account, just sign up for one by using the join button. If that doesn’t work, let me know by posting a reply to this comment. I haven’t checked it recently myself.
03/28/2024 @ 6:39 am
Alan,
“Outside of the fact that your name is Suzanne, I have absolutely no idea who you are”
Alan. You do know me. You’ve emailed me multiple times, to converse about dental troubles, Boston, and various other things, as recently as last summer. I was active on Open Salon, Our Salon, and here under the Greenheron account/avatar. Since my email addie is literally Greenheron, and I’m using my name now, you know the two names are me.
When my life was busy, when things seemed slow here, I’d sometimes go several months without visiting. One time when I checked in, and my account was gone. I didn’t delete it. It wasn’t spam purged. Maybe you figured after a longish absence, I wasn’t returning?
It’s ok. There were posts and art in my account, but I’m not upset that those disappeared. Years of writing at Open Salon and Our Salon also disappeared. I prefer disappearance to perpetuity in cyberspace.
There are only a few folks left here and it’s been mostly about good art yaks with Rose for me now. I fully expect to click on the site and find it gone someday soon, so will pass on re-enlisting.
xo,
I Don’t Know Her 😂
03/23/2024 @ 6:29 am
P.S. remember when our treasury approved a bill design that featured Harriet Tubman? Trump tabled it, but Biden did not restore it. All those small dollar campaign donations made with Harriet Tubman twenties. Wonder if he regrets that now.
03/25/2024 @ 4:11 pm
I am afraid that you are becoming tiresome. I don’t know how old you are but I was demonstrating for women’s rights sixty-five year….but I am not interested in continuing this discussion because it is rather stupid. I wrote what I wrote because I was making a point about the political signage that we are subjected to and what it means and associating the MAGA cap with other war symbols, which is exactly what it is. I don’t have to attempt to summarize every poitical pontification in everything I write, nor does anyone else.
03/27/2024 @ 10:10 am
When male blind spots are pointed out by women, men often become defensive, responding with all the ways they respect women. That doesn’t negate their blind spots however, when they don’t automatically and reflexively include contributions of women in their general discussion.
Ron Powell posted many many times about white blind spots. No one refuted him. No one said he had an ‘agenda’. No one called his comments ‘rather stupid’. They would not dare. He was a Black man, he had experience, and he knew what he was talking about. A woman points out male blind spots and is dismissed as ‘stupid’ and ‘tiresome’.
As I said, my point is made, and really well. Alan, do you ever wonder went where all the women Bindlestitchers went, or why?
03/28/2024 @ 6:36 pm
Greenheron rings a bell, but outside of that much, it is mostly a blank now. I don’t remember most of the conversations I was involved in back then. I think I have a complete file of everythng I ever wrote for Open Salon but I may have just extracted the poetry and tossed the rest.
03/23/2024 @ 7:30 pm
What?!
That I should drive slosh over to MacArthur Park and watch the sunset?
03/23/2024 @ 11:57 pm
Alan I’m not saying you don’t have a plethora of intellectual sweat equity as you assert quite well whose was it? Eric Hoffer? Herby Marcuse?’DESUBLIMATION’
It is just that: Wounded Warriors make me emotional.
I say: let’s take back the night with the dawn’s early light
Right now I’m treating for what my counselor defines as ‘Straw Dog Syndrome’ and all frigid weekend I am supposed to be randomly speed-drawing a pentagon-like structure as futuristic haven-destination south of the border. That people could live in. Kind sir: nukes are not theater. Is it the dead of the night yet?
03/26/2024 @ 1:26 pm
The single greatest influence in my life has been my mother. I am more like my father, probably because we are both male, but my mother is by far the greatest influence. When she passed away, I struggled to draw a glass of water from a sink because I questioned how I knew how to do that. I walked into grass barefoot and wondered about the color green. I wondered if it was still green because I learned that from mom. I have a long list of insane thoughts like that which descended upon me for three days after my mom died. Her removal from my reality shook me. I elevate teachers to the highest level in my construction of civilization because my mom was one. I have viewed the world through that prism for my entire life. Dad and I enjoyed things like sports together, but my loyalty to the ‘home team’ comes directly from a lecture given to me by mom.
Mom was never a published author. Had she been, she likely would have been on my list. But, my mom’s words are with me daily, and she died in 1994. She said to me once, “always keep your principles because that is how you find your way home.” I understand that now far better than when she told me in my early adulthood. I don’t hold a principle that she and my dad would not approve of. I think we probably share all of them. If I were a book, then my mother is the author. My dad did some editing.
03/26/2024 @ 2:56 pm
In response to Bitey’s most recent comment, James happens to live with a “preachy female.” He’s been married to Mary Matalin since 1993, so he may just know whereof he speaks. (But I will bet he didn’t clear that posting with her.)
All politics is to some extent based on identification with a cause or a group, but I was using the term “identity politics” to refer to people who vote on the basis of one specific cause, as many in Michigan will stupidly vote for Trump because they blame Biden for Israel’s attack on Hamas simply because they are Muslims, or voting against a candidate on the basis of where that candidate stands on gender identification and pronoun usage. What Carville may have been getting at is that the Democratic party is being torn apart by lifestyle issues that are not germane to saving what’s left of democracy from an outright demoguge. The Democrats used to be the big tent. How the hell did they become an RV campground, and how did the Republicans become the big tent.
03/26/2024 @ 3:14 pm
The Democrats remain the big tent. The GOP isn’t, and never will be. The GOP has representations of diversity, but they are mere tokens. Part of what you find uncomfortable about the Democrat’s turbulent nature is its inclusiveness. Many within seek to achieve purity on some issue or another, but that is not the essential party. Think about sex workers are symbols as a type of feminism versus symbols of exploitation. Splits like that exist within many aspects as we wrestle with the interpretations of freedom.
Incidentally, I agree with you about symbols of power. My formative influence regarding such symbols is somewhat…well, I don’t know how to characterize it. My pastor in my youth was a Mennonite. To try to distill this into a few words is difficult, but nationalism was a no-no. When we watched a ballgame, or attended one, we got small lectures about how nationalism was threatening to our view of freedom. I recall once my pastor reacting to someone on television saying, “better dead than red.” His response was to question that and say, “better red than dead. Better anything than dead.” Was he pushing communism, no. He was demonstrating open thought. (Just one of the reasons that I reject that chauvinism charge. She has no idea).
I don’t think the Democratic party is being torn apart. In the 1930s, Will Rodgers said, “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.” That’s nearly 100 years ago. We’re not coming apart. We exist in pieces.
03/26/2024 @ 3:47 pm
I am most concerned about the Muslim voting block in Michigan. Michigan is the election. I think we will win Pennsylvania, but it will be close. There are several different paths to victory. One report indicated that Florida might be ready to flip but Michigan is key….and Democrats in MI are divided on Israel. Biden has been doing an incredible tap dance, trying to keep his Jewish donors from bolting while pressuring Israel to cease fire, which Israel isn’t going to do until the hostages are freed.
That’s the kind of wedge issue that is dividing the party. One of my high school classmates believes that the litany of woke issues are driving many upper middle-class Democratic voters to distraction. He will vote for Biden, but he really doesn’t like the way the party seems to kowtow to “fringe” groups.
The Republicans are the Big Tent because they are housing all the “anti” voters, anti-abortion, anti-DEI, etc. Everyone who feels disaffected, fears the welfare state (which they have been living in for 80 years), doesn’t like Black people, thinks that immigrants are taking their jobs….and all that bullshit
According to Gallup, in 2022, 41% of the electorate was independent, 28% were Democrats and 28% were Republicans according to voter registrations, but only 31 states have party registrations. Clearly, this election will be won or lost according to the number of independents who vote….and where the Republican voters are concentrated.
Thanks for reminding me of what Will Rogers said. Unfortunately, he died in 1935, just before FDR whipped the Democrats into shape….for awhile.
03/26/2024 @ 3:58 pm
If I were the gambling sort, I’d take all available cash and bet on the Democrats this Fall. The GOP is failing spectacularly. The Democrats are beating them in fund raising by more than two to one. Polls are one level as a predictor, but money is much better.
As for the Muslims in Michigan, what should they say if they want to be heard? Should they say that all is well and they support Biden? No one will hear that. We would not be discussing that. They should say what they are saying now…if they want to be heard. Separate that from how should they vote. Do they believe that voting for Trump, or not voting and essentially achieving the same end, is in their best interests? Highly doubtful. Now, if the combination of those who choose not to support Biden with those who resent the fringe and decide to not support Democrats manage to throw the election to Trump, well…that’s who we are. We deserve exactly that. I don’t think that collectively we are quite that stupid. Trump has still not won a popular vote yet. I expect that trend to continue. Most people are invested in reality…even in Michigan.
03/26/2024 @ 4:32 pm
I see the trends. I see the fundraising. I see Republican House Members heading for the exits. At this rate, we may have a Democratic House at least for awhile.
I admire your optimism. I retain my lifelong pessimism.
03/27/2024 @ 11:53 am
As I recall, the list wasn’t a discussion of the best, or my favorites, or anything like that. As I recall, it was about which made the greatest impressions. I did not rank them, and even as it was I wondered about many other books for a variety of reasons. It is nowhere near scientific. It is also not a recommendation. It isn’t intended to say to a single other soul that this is what they should be doing.
As for the gender of the authors, I never gave the first thought to who the authors were. And I would be disappointed in myself if I had after compiling my list. The list is not to garner anyone else’s approval for any reason.
When I was younger, I loved visiting and talking with my older relatives. I took full advantage of it when I could. I asked a lot of questions and engaged them in stories about events that I was not around to experience. I always wondered, however, why they seemed to have a different vibe from my own in these conversations.
By the time I was of dating age, this was happening with parents and grandparents of girlfriend’s families. One in particular that comes to mind is the granddad of a former girlfriend who had been a WWII veteran. Granddad was sitting in the kitchen with family all around, and not really talking to anyone. When I was introduced, we started talking. I was introduced as a former Marine, and he nodded his acknowledgement without saying anything. Then, suddenly, at one point, he just started talking about WWII. The rest of the room got quiet. Everyone left and he and I continued to talk. They actually went into the next room and listened. After a couple of hours, I was getting ready to leave and they invited me over the next day. On that second day, they debriefed me about everything we talked about. They told me that Granddad had never told any of those stories about WWII. He had always refused to discuss it. They figured that it was because I had been in the USMC…although his son-in-law was a Vietnam vet. I figured that was just as good an explanation as any. I didn’t understand it, but I accepted it.
I am beginning to feel differently about how that works. Now, I find myself in the shoes of the granddad regarding this type of conversation. I used to love them, but that love of them has faded. What people tend to share is lacking, and their criticisms are ridiculously unfair. My curiosity about their experiences has diminished and is being replaced with cynicism about their attitudes. When I was younger, my lack of cynicism worked almost as a shield to cynics. Now, as my cynicism has risen to the level of so many around me, I am less interested in seeing past their cynicism. My influential to me female mother used to say that you, “make the world that you want to have by being the person you’d like to meet.” Now I seem to be making cynics…and the result is that my interest has dropped.
I won’t be sharing any lists.
03/27/2024 @ 1:41 pm
“As for the gender of the authors, I never gave the first thought to who the authors were”.
You understand that we both grew up with teachers who gave us books written by men, about men, and women whom men created. We never gave gender a thought, that was what school was then. Girls grew up reading the male perspective and didn’t see ourselves reflected. Boys grew up unaware that there was a women’s perspective.
If I’d never had anything except Steinbeck, Hemingway, and Twain to read, things might have turned out differently. It wasn’t until college that a professor assigned Sula, the story of two Black childhood friends, written by a Black woman author. Although I was white, the main characters felt authentic, created by a woman who knew women, knew women’s friendships, and women’s heartbreak.
You spoke of gender identity as if it isn’t important. It is so important. Look at all the young girls responding to Taylor Swift, to Barbie, to Beyonce, to the Black Little Mermaid. The extreme right hates these women because they recognize that the next crop of women will see themselves as women of accomplishment, rather than fantasies.
Re: Toni Morrison. I too am careful about how I speak of her work. As a white woman, I don’t want to seem arrogant or patronizing. A former teaching assistant, a Black man who spent a year working in Africa learning fabric dying techniques, and whose art focuses on the African diaspora, was surprised to discover that Song of Solomon was the best book either of us read. Our discussions stuck with me, as each of us was an outsider to her stories in a different singular way.
As you know, Morrison had a lot to say about white people, and also Black men. I read an anthology last year of her essays, assembled not long before her passing. She was keenly aware of how white people read her books. Her feeling was that she wrote for a Black audience, but that the door was open for anyone to enter, and although some would never truly know Black experience, all are welcome to witness the beauty and pain on her pages.
P.S. You know that The Bluest Eye is the number one book on the Florida banned books list. Those folks never even read one page of it.
P.P.S thanks for taking the time to engage 🙂
03/27/2024 @ 5:28 pm
I said that I did not give the authors a thought…when I whipped out that list here. To go from there to say that I don’t value gender identity boggles my mind.
You know, I can’t remember how old I was, but I was quite young when I started polling friends and family about how they felt about being male or female. I asked if they would rather have been born the gender that they are or the other. (At that time, the entire concept was covered by two). I asked my friends that question for years, until I got tired of asking. I was in college when I stopped asking. I never once got a person to say that they wanted to be, or were even curious about being a different gender. I stopped asking because I found the question to be boring. It never varied. If one person had answered differently, I would remember and be able to discuss the one exception. There were none. I was hip to the idea that gender mattered since before I was 10 years of age. The significance and the complexity only grew as I grew older.
In college, as an English major, I took Women’s Lit classes, at first, because it was a requirement. I had heard horror stories about how men were treated and I dreaded it. It wasn’t like that, and I took more than I was required to take because they did reveal perspectives that were hidden. I took all sorts of lessons from those classes that are with me today…like…medical research being based entirely upon male bodies, and how women’s medical issues were so massively misunderstood…and to some degree remain so. This revealed a great deal about all sorts of things, including the social systems that we deal with currently.
I keep responding to these slights, and I see a pattern here. You keep making these unsound judgments, and I keep explaining that I am not some cannibal or something. I’m done with that.
Think what you like. Leave me out of it.
03/28/2024 @ 6:46 am
Bitey, you missed the part where I said that you get it? I guess so.
I also agree, that people are happy with their gender and race. We just want others to be happy with our gender and race also.
You feel that listcicle was a mistake, and seem to regret it. I’m good with that response.
03/28/2024 @ 10:36 am
You seem to think you are right to slight someone. I don’t feel it was a mistake. I want to remove the temptation to set you straight with stronger language.
Being happy with one’s gender or race does not mean that they are unhappy with others. (That example was meant to show that I have been curious and interested in others since I was a small child.) It is quite obvious that not all are happy with what they are. Your thesis is based upon the invisibility of women to men…including me. My example was to show I have seen them since childhood. Can I break it down any further?
My response wasn’t a “listicle”. It was the response to a question. If someone says, tell me ten things, the answer is not a listicle.
I didn’t miss the part where you said “you get it.” I knew that before we started. Again, I’m not here seeking your approval.
Here’s what you don’t get. Condemning someone about their gender, reading choices, or whatever is not going to achieve your goal of being “happy” with yours. (Your word, not mine). That’s just a mild form of bullying that causes one to wonder…negative things.
Go back and read everything if it floats your boat. Notice that I never once said anything as strong as you don’t get it until this comment. Again, using your words.
You raise passive aggressiveness to an art form. Insert here how much you miss Ron. You’re doing no tribute too Ron by saying it in this context. You’re using his memory as a projectile. Do you…get that? Do you cook? The bile that you blend into your cake batter makes the whole thing bitter.
03/28/2024 @ 3:23 pm
03/27/2024 @ 12:30 pm
Suzanne…”A recent example. You asked Bitey about the books that most influenced him. He provided a list of ten. None were written by women. You gushed over the list.
Book suggestion for both of you: anything by Toni Morrison. My personal favorites are “Song of Solomon” and “The Bluest Eye”. When a man mentions these were important books to him, I know I’ve met a man who can see women…”– Suzanne
Above is your quote. From that, I distilled the conclusion of chauvinist. You did not use the word, and I did not put it in quotes as a result, so we agree there. However, your meaning is implied when you said, “When a man mentions these were important books to him, I know I’ve met a man who can see women.” Obviously, I did not mention, by use of that list, that those books were important to me. From that you took that they were not important, and that I don’t “see” women. Ok, I assume that you did not mean that women are literally invisible to me. That leaves the metaphorical reading that I look over, under, past, and through women…without seeing them. I have…metaphorically…eliminated them from significance. That is the meaning of your statement. Tell me how that is different from chauvinism?
Let me just say this about Toni Morrison so that I can dispose of that aspect of the subject. I hold Toni Morrison in very high regard. I don’t discuss her books with anyone unless in person, and in certain select company. There are numerous reasons for that that, frankly, I don’t think you can understand…so I just don’t. There are other films, music, and pieces of art that I handle similarly for similar reasons. Toni Morrison is in a very select group. And to quote Forrest Gump, “that’s all I have to say about that.”
03/27/2024 @ 9:35 pm
I could care less about who wrote what. I am only interested in what I read. I am also not convinced that reading fiction is good for you mind or soul, which is why I don’t read fiction except for a few old favorites that I read over and over to mellow out with.
03/29/2024 @ 9:54 am
From a political standpoint I think virtue signaling does more harm than good, particularly when it becomes an expectation. When I impinge on someone’s rights, I want to know it. When I obviously denigrate someone for belonging to any minority, I want to know it. When I tolerate obvious denigration that happens in front of me, I want to know it. When I tolerate obvious denigration in the sense that I advocate someone bigoted for electoral office, I want to know it.
Past that, I don’t mind being taught but I very much mind being castigated. I’m not interested in a reading list. If I’m going to be corrected, I want it to be about something substantive.
Pretty much if I insult anyone over anything they don’t control, I want to know it. That’s why you will never see me make fun of the size of Trump’s hands. That’s just bullying, even if he is the quintessential bully – I’m not going to be guilty of that intentionally.
I can be asked to advocate for a minority but not told to, particularly when whoever is doing the asking or expecting has not advocated for mine.
Funny thing about the population here:
We all belong to minorities now. That, at least, is a perspective we don’t have to teach.