DO YOU WANT A JEWISH COUNTRY? WHY AND AT WHAT COST?
I don’t know if this person is stupid, ignorant or simply an antisemite. I never expected this question from this person.
This was my reply.
Do I want a Jewish country? Do you want a Christian country? Why don’t you try asking that question in Saudi Arabia, “Do you want a Muslim country?”
OF course, I want a Jewish country because it already exists and the only way to change that is to kill eight million Jews. Israel exists….but it is also the only country in the world that has to CONTINUOUSLY deal with the question of whether or not it should exist.
Oh, excuse me. There are three other countries in that position: Ukraine, Taiwan and South Korea.
I want a Jewish country to exist because, before Israel became a nation-state, Jews in the United States were treated like a pariah people, second-class citizens, like Black people, like the Irish, and the Italians. so that the survival of Israel directly affects my own survival here.
The Irish have Ireland. The Italians have Italy. Jews have Israel. Is that so hard to understand? (Black people in America are stuck here. It is extremely difficult for Black Americans to return to Africa.)
There are 49 countries with Muslim majorities. Want to guess how many Jews live in those 49 countries. Have you ever asked any of them why they should exist?
In 1945, there were 885,000 Jews living in Muslim majority countries. Today, there are less than 100,000, and most of them are in Iran and Turkey.
Do you want to take a guess about where those 800,000 Jews went? They went to one of two places: Israel and the United States.
There are 157 countries with Christian majorities. In many of those countries there are no Jews at all. I guess they didn’t need them to serve as money changers or provide medical care.
So, tell me, please, why shouldn’t there be ONE country with a Jewish majority, a place of succor when other countries attempt to expel or exterminate them?
As far as the cost is concerned: ABSOLUTELY WHATEVER IT TAKES.
Jews have spent twenty centuries being murdered for being Jewish. Don’t expect us to balk at killing innocent bystanders in the process of defending ourselves, just like every other country does.
Israeli Jews have something called “The Masada Complex.” It is based upon the possibly mythical, possibly factual, story that the defenders of the Masada fortress, under attack by Roman legions, out of weapons, food, and water, committed mass suicide rather than to surrender for crucifixion.
When Israelis say, “Never Again,” they are not kidding. If the Israelis believe that they are about to be overrun by enemy armies, they will use their nuclear weapons….but no one knows where they are, where they are aimed, or how they would be delivered.
There’s an ancient word for it: Armageddon.
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Alan Milner
Alan Milner has worked in journalism, public relations, advertising, fundraising, organizational development, business management, and software development.. He is the founder and operator of this website.
Alan, I am very sorry for the emotional stress that you are under. We are all under stress these days. I hope you find peace soon. You are entitled to it.
Frankly, everyone is entitled to it. Peace is what matters most. Take, for example, those on the continent of Africa. (Africa is a continent, not a country. I mention this because you said, “the Irish have Ireland…”, etc. This rather cavalierly deals with Black diaspora). Globally, 25% of (all people) are under 15 years of age. Does one quarter of the population deserve to be subject to “Armageddon” because of how anyone was treated or mistreated? No. Of course not. They should have peace. What happened to anyone else, for whatever reason may be a tragedy, but these children don’t deserve hell for it. We can do better. On Africa, that big continent not given the respect to even be parsed with regard to ethnicity or nationality, 40% are under 15 years of age. We are already stepping over their smoldering irradiated carcasses…rhetorically. But, by what standard do we construct this principle? Are they intrinsically worth less?
One thing that is all too common in the US is the suicidal mass shooter. When my wife and I see the all too frequent news of these tragic events, one of us will usually say, it is sad enough that this person wanted to end his life, but if it comes to that, why not just do it rather than being determined to take as many with you before you do it?
“Never again”. I get it. I endorse that sentiment. Put a number on the number of tragically affected Jews by the sum total of all the pogroms in human history. I won’t quibble out of respect for each and every one. Currently there are approximately 8 billion people on the planet. (One quarter of which are under 15). Does that number of the aggrieved justify cashiering 8 billion people? No. Civilization does not exist for a mass suicide, no matter the injustice to any segment of it. Italians don’t deserve that. Irish don’t deserve that. Not even that massive amorphous blob of blackness in Africa deserves that. We can do better.
Peace only works with people who aren’t dedicated to destroying your country on principle. One of the most pernicious myths out there, unfortunately boosted by a shortsighted Netanyahu, is that Israel is why the Palestinians don’t have an independent state. Israel has tried to give them one several times; it is their own leadership that refuses.
The vast majority of the planet are not Hamas, and did not invade Israel on October 7th. Talk of “Armageddon” brings those people into the peace question. Peace works for them, and they deserve it.
The “people” do not exist as a single integrated entity. All we are are factions within factions, fast friends and sworn enemies existing in a super-heated soup of changing allegiances and treaty obligations. Everyone on this planet is already part of the equation. Most of the planet really doesn’t care one way or the other about Israel. Most of the informed people of the planet understand that Hamas is a bunch of thugs, a mafia, if that isn’t an insult to the Cosa Nostra. People deserve peace but until everyone has what they want, there can be no peace, and since everyone is a greedy bastard, everyone always wants what someone else has…and the more people have, the more they seem to want.
I have nothing but bitter hatred for the Jews who join demonstrations against Israel. They range from the far left to the far right, from the ultra-orthodox to the radical atheists, but they also share one common characteristic: they are all supporting a vicious fascistic pseudo-government -Hamas – while demanding the removal of citizens from land they have purchased with money, with effort, and with blood while calling that government by names they don’t understand
I would say that this is the beginning of the end, but the beginning of the end began in 2016 when the Russians put Trump into the White House.
I would never be able to pull the trigger that would unleash nuclear weapons on the world. I could not do it, in the same way I could never shoot someone in cold blood….but if someone was attacking people to whom I have an obligation to defend, that would be a very different matter.
I’ve reached the age at which life is no longer so precious to me. It feels more like a burden than a gift but I subscribe to the philosophy of “Never Again.”
I’ve seen variations on this question, such as why do Jews deserve a country?
My answer was that those who ask that don’t have enough moral capital with Jews to have their question considered. We were a minority everywhere for eighteen centuries and it was not a pleasant experience. Then one country tried to exterminate us and hardly anyone took in fleeing Jews. No one undertook any military actions on Jews’ behalf. So now people from countries who did nothing specific to help us survive object to our current survival strategem. What a shock. Now, with Jews, these people don’t have a voice. People who question Israel’s right to exist are why Israel is necessary. If their countries had treated us decently to begin with, they wouldn’t have this problem. Israeli existence is on them. Israel is first and foremost for Jewish safety.
The main thing to understand about Israeli nuclear weapons is not that they are hidden but that there is a triad, meaning that even if Israel is nuked, Israel can still retaliate with a nuclear strike. There is no nation on Earth that would find the Palestinian cause worth its own destruction. This is how every nuclear power works. If its existence is at stake, then nuclear weapons use becomes feasible. That’s just more likely with Israel than it is with other countries.
I think you need to explain “triad. If you mean what I think you mean, your are referring to the fact that Israel has medium range and intercontinental ballistic missiles, fighters and bombers that set up to deliver both missile mounted and air dropped devices, and several submarines that have been modified to fire missiles. The subs, obviously, are skulking around several different oceans, but some of the other delivery systems are also co-located outside of Israel itself.
It is a terrifying fact that Israel, India and Pakistan are the three countries that are most likely to use their nukes, and Israel is far and away more likely than either India or Pakistan to do so….and that is true regardless who is in power in Israel, whether Bibi is the driver’s seat or in prison.
Yes, that’s what I mean by triad, and your assessment is correct. Israel is the most likely, because Israel is the only country of these whose existence is constantly under threat. If someone conquers Pakistan, India, North Korea, the result will not be the expulsion and/or murder of most of its population, yet in Israel that would absolutely be the result. Threat level leads to probability, and a bunch of Americans running around chanting “from the river to the sea” increases that probability.
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05/01/2024 @ 5:32 am
Alan, I am very sorry for the emotional stress that you are under. We are all under stress these days. I hope you find peace soon. You are entitled to it.
Frankly, everyone is entitled to it. Peace is what matters most. Take, for example, those on the continent of Africa. (Africa is a continent, not a country. I mention this because you said, “the Irish have Ireland…”, etc. This rather cavalierly deals with Black diaspora). Globally, 25% of (all people) are under 15 years of age. Does one quarter of the population deserve to be subject to “Armageddon” because of how anyone was treated or mistreated? No. Of course not. They should have peace. What happened to anyone else, for whatever reason may be a tragedy, but these children don’t deserve hell for it. We can do better. On Africa, that big continent not given the respect to even be parsed with regard to ethnicity or nationality, 40% are under 15 years of age. We are already stepping over their smoldering irradiated carcasses…rhetorically. But, by what standard do we construct this principle? Are they intrinsically worth less?
One thing that is all too common in the US is the suicidal mass shooter. When my wife and I see the all too frequent news of these tragic events, one of us will usually say, it is sad enough that this person wanted to end his life, but if it comes to that, why not just do it rather than being determined to take as many with you before you do it?
“Never again”. I get it. I endorse that sentiment. Put a number on the number of tragically affected Jews by the sum total of all the pogroms in human history. I won’t quibble out of respect for each and every one. Currently there are approximately 8 billion people on the planet. (One quarter of which are under 15). Does that number of the aggrieved justify cashiering 8 billion people? No. Civilization does not exist for a mass suicide, no matter the injustice to any segment of it. Italians don’t deserve that. Irish don’t deserve that. Not even that massive amorphous blob of blackness in Africa deserves that. We can do better.
05/02/2024 @ 12:30 am
Peace only works with people who aren’t dedicated to destroying your country on principle. One of the most pernicious myths out there, unfortunately boosted by a shortsighted Netanyahu, is that Israel is why the Palestinians don’t have an independent state. Israel has tried to give them one several times; it is their own leadership that refuses.
05/02/2024 @ 4:56 am
The vast majority of the planet are not Hamas, and did not invade Israel on October 7th. Talk of “Armageddon” brings those people into the peace question. Peace works for them, and they deserve it.
05/02/2024 @ 10:35 am
The “people” do not exist as a single integrated entity. All we are are factions within factions, fast friends and sworn enemies existing in a super-heated soup of changing allegiances and treaty obligations. Everyone on this planet is already part of the equation. Most of the planet really doesn’t care one way or the other about Israel. Most of the informed people of the planet understand that Hamas is a bunch of thugs, a mafia, if that isn’t an insult to the Cosa Nostra. People deserve peace but until everyone has what they want, there can be no peace, and since everyone is a greedy bastard, everyone always wants what someone else has…and the more people have, the more they seem to want.
I have nothing but bitter hatred for the Jews who join demonstrations against Israel. They range from the far left to the far right, from the ultra-orthodox to the radical atheists, but they also share one common characteristic: they are all supporting a vicious fascistic pseudo-government -Hamas – while demanding the removal of citizens from land they have purchased with money, with effort, and with blood while calling that government by names they don’t understand
I would say that this is the beginning of the end, but the beginning of the end began in 2016 when the Russians put Trump into the White House.
I would never be able to pull the trigger that would unleash nuclear weapons on the world. I could not do it, in the same way I could never shoot someone in cold blood….but if someone was attacking people to whom I have an obligation to defend, that would be a very different matter.
I’ve reached the age at which life is no longer so precious to me. It feels more like a burden than a gift but I subscribe to the philosophy of “Never Again.”
05/02/2024 @ 12:40 pm
Existence precedes essence.
05/02/2024 @ 12:26 am
I’ve seen variations on this question, such as why do Jews deserve a country?
My answer was that those who ask that don’t have enough moral capital with Jews to have their question considered. We were a minority everywhere for eighteen centuries and it was not a pleasant experience. Then one country tried to exterminate us and hardly anyone took in fleeing Jews. No one undertook any military actions on Jews’ behalf. So now people from countries who did nothing specific to help us survive object to our current survival strategem. What a shock. Now, with Jews, these people don’t have a voice. People who question Israel’s right to exist are why Israel is necessary. If their countries had treated us decently to begin with, they wouldn’t have this problem. Israeli existence is on them. Israel is first and foremost for Jewish safety.
The main thing to understand about Israeli nuclear weapons is not that they are hidden but that there is a triad, meaning that even if Israel is nuked, Israel can still retaliate with a nuclear strike. There is no nation on Earth that would find the Palestinian cause worth its own destruction. This is how every nuclear power works. If its existence is at stake, then nuclear weapons use becomes feasible. That’s just more likely with Israel than it is with other countries.
05/02/2024 @ 12:39 am
I think you need to explain “triad. If you mean what I think you mean, your are referring to the fact that Israel has medium range and intercontinental ballistic missiles, fighters and bombers that set up to deliver both missile mounted and air dropped devices, and several submarines that have been modified to fire missiles. The subs, obviously, are skulking around several different oceans, but some of the other delivery systems are also co-located outside of Israel itself.
It is a terrifying fact that Israel, India and Pakistan are the three countries that are most likely to use their nukes, and Israel is far and away more likely than either India or Pakistan to do so….and that is true regardless who is in power in Israel, whether Bibi is the driver’s seat or in prison.
05/05/2024 @ 11:17 pm
Yes, that’s what I mean by triad, and your assessment is correct. Israel is the most likely, because Israel is the only country of these whose existence is constantly under threat. If someone conquers Pakistan, India, North Korea, the result will not be the expulsion and/or murder of most of its population, yet in Israel that would absolutely be the result. Threat level leads to probability, and a bunch of Americans running around chanting “from the river to the sea” increases that probability.